Jupiter Bokondji and his group Okwess have been shaking up our notions about Congolese music since their debut album Hotel Univers dropped in 2013. The band actually formed in Kinshasa in 1990 when Bokondji recruited a team of young musicians to present a broader spectrum of Congo music than we hear in Kinshasa’s rumba, soukous, ndombolo, etc. But it took awhile before the world took notice.
This band has punk rock energy, but their music draws on languages, rhythms and musical ideas from all around this vast, multi-ethnic nation. Bokondji’s father was a Congolese diplomat and his grandmother a traditional healer. He formed his first band in East Berlin when his father was stationed there in the late ’70s and early ’80s. Jupiter & Okwess remained a well kept secret for year, but over the past decade, they’ve been in high demand around the world, and their shows are always electrifying.
Now, the band is out with its fourth album, Ekoya. The album includes tracks recorded in Mexico with producer Camilo Lara, and guest appearances from Latin musicians, including Flavia Coelho of Brazil. There are new colors in the mix, but the fierce energy this band is renowned for is undiluted in these 12 tracks. One other way that Jupiter and Okwess diverge from the norms of Congolese music is in Bokondji’s willingness to engage social themes like poverty, war and corruption, subjects that “rumba” bands generally avoid entirely. On stage and off, Bokondji is a force of nature. Afropop’s Banning Eyre caught up with him in France over Zoom, just before the band’s show that night. Here’s their conversation.
Banning Eyre: Jupiter, we spoke once before in New York at BB King’s, some years ago. Bit I’ve seen you in concert a number of times since, and it’s always a thrill. So I’m a fan. I’ve been listening to the new album. It’s truly a new chapter in your history.
Jupiter: Merci beaucoup. Merci beaucoup. Yes, exactly.
How did you come to record in Mexico?
It’s all about the discovery of the Latin American people. We were doing concerts, festival after festival there. So why not record in Mexico with Camilo [Lara]? Camilo has done music for films, American films. Black Panther. So we started with him in Guadalajara, in the neighborhood where my manager François [Gouverneur] has a lot of friends. So we took advantage of the opportunity to continue doing the work.
Great.
We had all these connections from left to right, and in addition, we discovered that these Latin countries–Colombia, Mexico and all these countries on the other side–have the same political problems we have, also the same climate and, especially, the same food. Then by going a little deeper into the knowledge of these parts of the world, I realized that there was more continuity with Africa. So why not make songs with rebels from the other side? This time, we worked with [Mexican rapper and advocate for women and the people of Chiapas] Mare Advertencia from Chiapas. She is very involved in the reclamation of land in her area.
She raps on the song “Orgullo,” a song that really kicks out the stops. It’s a full-on Jupiter and Okwess boogie.
Exactly. She’s there, and she gave us a little bit of her sauce. And then we have Flavia Coelho from Brazil. With her, we were already connected. We had talked about doing an album with her. But she’s always in motion. We didn’t have the time, but we needed to hear her in these songs. So in two or three minutes, she did her part. (laughs). With these artists, we find it’s always the same problems: political, economic… The same problems.
So then we have Soyi Nsele, who sings on the first song, “Selele.” She has a fantastic voice. Really unusual.
Soyi is from my ethnic group, the indigenous people of Congo. I am a Mongo. In our ethnic group, we are the ones who preserve the equatorial forest. There came a time when people started selling the forest, burning the forest, and all these people who lived in this forest no longer had places to hide. That’s why they complained. “Even while you are burning the forest, you never thought about creating schools, about peoples’ future.” In the meantime, we have climate change, flooding, all that, all that. It’s all because of these people who are burning the forest. It’s too much.
So to start, we reclaim our rights. We are a people who have been sacrificed, a conscious generation, but expendable. But in the end, we have to fight. We still have to fight through the rain because we are a family when we fight. We have to fight through the rain. Otherwise, our neighbors cannot hear us.
This is how I developed this album. There’s a song for what we call “heroes in the shadows.” That’s “Nabado.” The heroes of the shade are you, the journalists who are handling the information. The heroes in the shadow are also the sound engineers, the lighting people, all these people who help artists do their shows well. These are heroes in the shadows. And in the end, it continues through the album, everything that happens in the world, the fights, the conflict, war. And what for? The land. Since the beginning we fight for the land.
“Oh, this is my land! No, this is my land.” It’s the same with Israel and Palestine. It’s the same in Ukraine. And in my country, with the Rwandans, it’s always the land, the minorities. You have to protect the minorities. But I’ve always wondered why fight? If we play there, we die. We can’t take a part of the earth and bring it with us to the grave. Contrarily, if we all fight for the land, the land will engulf us all. That’s the irony of fate. Everything will pass. We will have diamonds, will have riches, will have beautiful cars, will have a king. But everything will pass into oblivion. That’s it, a summary of the album.
What is your life like in Congo now? Are there people who don’t like what you sing? Is that ever a problem? What is the situation for you and the group in Kinshasa today?
No, no. Currently, everything is going well. They are not interested in me. I am not one of them, They want people who are dedicated to glorifying them. “Oh, Mr. Minister… Mr. President…” I am not in this line, so they don’t care about me. But in the meantime, there is a new generation of young people who are following what we are doing. We are trying to create a new generation with this kind of music. Because in all my statements, I had always said that if we talk about rumba, yes, it is our music. But this music is mostly exploited in Kinshasa. So for me, it’s the music of the capital. Whereas the music of Congo is the traditional music with all these 450 ethnic groups. That’s political, but actually, I think things are coming into place. I’m sure that in the days to come, there will be many small Jupiters. My students will continue.
I know that a mark of Jupiter and Okwess has always been developing rhythms and traditions apart from rumba and the Kinshasa sound. I want to ask about some of the rhythmic sources for these new songs. For example, “Les Bons Comptes,” the song with Flavia Coelho.
Rhythmically, this is the mix between the music of Congo and Brazil. We share a lot. It’s a Mongo rhythm with a new melody. The melody colors the music with the voice of Flavia Coelho. So that’s the Brazilian voice.
I am a guitarist and I always admire the guitar arrangements in your music and on this album particularly. I have to ask about one the rhythm and the sound for the songs “Nkoyi Niama.” That one really cooks with the guitars!
That’s Zebola. The rhythm is Zebola. It’s a rhythm from deep in the equatorial forest, really deep.
You also have some songs on this album that are calmer, more reflective, perhaps. Even the title, “Ekoya.” What does that mean?
Yes. Thank you. Ekoya means “It will come. It will come.” All that we are not seeing today, when I talk about climate change and all that, that’s it, ekoya. What we predicted, it will come. In fact, it’s already here.
In the song “Congo Blinders,” I hear a little of mutuashi rhythm, that ternary 6/8 rhythm. Am I right?
Exactly, there’s a little mutuashi in there. A little. But mostly, especially in our vision, we mix rhythms to create a new rhythm, which we call bofenia rock.
And what does the song say?
It says, even if we in the family have fights, we have to do that behind the rain and thunder so that the neighbors won’t know we’re arguing. We to do it in secret between us, as family. “When faced with the aggressor, we must be united. We will end up resolving our internal problems, like a united family.”
But it also applies, I would even say, in our political framework. If the opposition and the power are fighting, and go to seek negotiation elsewhere in another country, then there will always other interests involved. But if we sit down at the table, we close the room and we discuss inside, no can can oppose us.
You say the authorities don’t bother you. So are you free to sing whatever you want without any problem?
No, no, no. We are free, but we are also politicized. We sing in proverbs. For example, if you want to say there is war in this part of the country, you can say, “The games in the trees we leave to the monkeys.”
Interesting. That reminds me of the way older Congolese singers would hide their meanings. Franco sang in proverbs. This is a Congolese tradition, right?
Yes. But in fact, for my part, I always speak in proverbs. In our language = there are many many proverbs, and it’s difficult to explain them. Take the song “Ekoya.” There are all these proverbs in that song. If I translate them literally, you will not understand the meaning. It must be explained.
Okay, can you give me an example?
My rival has lot more money than me, but I’m more beautiful than him. Or if I say, the crocodile was fooled by the rain and storm and he went to hide in the water. Or, you can’t hide the fire from the people who manage it. There are many, many proverbs. But you will not understand them. They must be explained.
Hmm.
You have to understand the way we play with words. You need the right intelligence, the right knowledge.
How many languages do you sing in on this album?
That depends. We sing in Kimongo, we sing in Swahili, we sing the language of Kinshasa [Lingala]. We sing in several languages, but we have more than 250 languages. I’m sure we won’t run out. We will open the door for others, because we have many more possibilities with our languages. But me, I really love to sing in my language, Kimongo. Because it’s beautiful. Yes, it’s very beautiful. And I’m strong in that language.
At the end of the album, you have this song, “Tout Passera.” Everything in this world passes on. You sing, “We will pass, die and leave, so why fight for material things?”
All your riches, all your land that you fought for, everything will pass. That’s the end, and as I said earlier, this is the idea of the album. It’s useless to always for fight for things, because everything will pass.
Now you are on tour. How do you find life on the road? Lots of travel, lot of hotels, lot of stages…
Well, this is our life. (laughs) It’s ours. We don’t have a choice. We are here to communicate. We are artists and artists are ambassadors. So we have to be able to pass the message through the sound. It’s a little hard sometimes. But we miss it if there are no concerts, no festivals. We stay two or three months at home, and we miss it. It makes us want to go again, because that’s our life. Of course, we take one month, two months off, for the time to compose other songs.
Right. So when you are not touring, does everyone live in Kinshasa?
It depends on who wants to spend their holidays where. If you want to go back to Kinshasa, you go back to Kinshasa. If you want to stay in France, you stay in France. Everyone is free to spend their holidays.
And you?
I am a horse. I spend my time between Kinshasa and Paris.
Do you do shows in Kinshasa or other places in Congo?
Yes, yes. In the past we have. Normally, we should have gone to Kinshasa in April to present the album. But because of the war, it’s cancelled. We canceled because of what is happening in Kinshasa, and in Eastern Congo.
Ah yes, the situation is very difficult there now. So many challenges. I visited Kinshasa twice, but not recently, it was in 1987, and in 2002, a long time ago. But I’ll never forget the musical atmosphere in the ’80s. It was so happening.
Yes, it was really exploding then.
You say there are young musicians following in Jupiter and Okwess’s footsteps.
Yes, and we have recorded some of them in Kinshasa. François came to Kinshasa, and we recorded four groups, two tracks each. So that’s eight tracks. We want to make a compilation to expose them and let you listen. But so far, with the situation Kinshasa, the war in the East, everything is slowed down. But we can send you the music, and contacts to talk to them.
That would be great. I love Congolese music in general, but I especially like the direction your group has taken. It’s a great blast of the consciousness of Congolese life that you give us with each disc. And this one especially.
For now we haven’t released the record. We have recorded it, but now we have to wait. When we release the music, you can call them and talk with them.
Are you coming over to this side to play this year?
We’re going to Canada in August.
Well, we’re hungry for your music, despite all our problems here.
Terrible. For everyone. For the whole world. Everyone is trying to move to the other side.
It takes courage, and luckily you guys have a lot of that. Thank you very much for talking. It’s always a pleasure. Have a great show tonight.
Thank you.
