Lochlan and Saxon’s Incest on The White Lotus Explained

Warning: This post contains spoilers for The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 6.

The Ratliff siblings have always seemed a little off. They speculate about one another’s sex lives. They masturbate in rooms without even a door between them. They watch each other sleeping. Many White Lotus fans got an increasingly queasy feeling watching the siblings flirt with the boundaries of what is appropriate throughout the first half of Season 3. And now, Lochlan and Saxon have crossed a line.

In Episode 5, we saw Saxon (Patrick Schwarzenegger) and Lochlan (Sam Nivola) kiss while high and drunk, at the encouragement of Chloe (Charlotte Le Bon). But as the two brothers nurse their hangovers in Episode 6, more memories flood back. Saxon is initially horrified to remember that he was masturbating in bed next to his brother while Lochlan had sex with Chloe. But as the day wears on, Saxon’s disgust deepens as he realizes that it was not his own hand, but his brother’s, that was touching him.

Chloe and Chelsea (Aimee Lou Wood) all but confirm the series of events to Saxon at the pool. When Saxon claims that Chloe and Chelsea “forced” the brothers to make out, Chloe nonchalantly replies, “I didn’t force him to jerk you off.” Saxon claims he doesn’t remember that part of the night because he blacked out. “Well, I didn’t, so…” Chloe says, smirking. Viewers may consider the possibility that Chloe is messing with Saxon’s hazy memory and Lochlan did not, in fact, touch Saxon. But, later in the episode, Lochlan separately recalls the encounter with his brother while he is meditating with Piper at the Buddhist retreat, all but confirming the act of incest.

The act dramatically complicates the relationship between the two brothers. Throughout the series, Saxon has been bullying Lochlan, mocking him for allegedly being a virgin, encouraging him to take advantage of women who “just want to be used,” all but force-feeding him protein shakes to bulk up his boyish frame. The parents echo this perception of Lochlan’s “meekness,” forcing him to go to posture training where he’s told that he protects himself with his “feminine” side. Saxon is not only trying to make Lochlan an alpha male in his own image (in contrast to the more enlightened, less aggressive man that their sister, Piper, would like Lochlan to be) but also to prove his own testosterone-fueled dominance in the family. Earlier on the yacht, before Saxon and Lochlan kiss, Lochlan tells his older brother, “One day, I’m going to take you down.” Saxon is later coerced into taking drugs, after insisting he won’t. He tells Chloe and Chelsea “not to take advantage of him.” But it is Lochlan who initiates the kiss with his brother and intensifies it, and it is Lochlan who presumably initiates touching his brother. As Lochlan presaged earlier in the evening, he has used sex to flip the siblings’ power dynamic on its head and wrest control from his brother, turning the elder Ratliff into a victim.

White Lotus creator Mike White has said in interviews that he wants to touch on taboos. In a recent New Yorker profile, White spoke about how after his father, a famous pastor, came out as gay, he tried hard to be a model citizen. “My dad suffered a lot from wanting to appear good…It was so important for him to say, ‘Gays are just like you, we’re good little boys,'” he told the reporter. “I don’t want to be making that argument for my career or my life. I’m not a good little boy.”

Each season of The White Lotus, White has delighted in writing transgressive queer characters. In Season 1, the gay manager of the hotel sexually harasses an employee and defecates in an (admittedly pompous) guest’s suitcase. Famously, in Season 2, a group of gay men conspire to kill White Lotus fan-favorite character Tanya (Jennifer Coolidge) culminating in the iconic line, “These gays, they’re trying to murder me!” White then promised the New Yorker that a gay plotline in Season 3 of The White Lotus would be “truly Satanic.” No doubt, he was referring to the transgression between Saxon and Lochlan.

Incest is rare on TV. There are, of course, prominent examples in the Game of Thrones franchise or mid-aughts historical drama Rome. But those shows are set in fantastical worlds, or set so long ago that the impacts don’t feel as immediate. Even the occasional contemporaneous incest storyline—Cruel Intentions, Six Feet Under—usually stops at heavy implication. A series that actually shows the act taking place in a contemporary setting is sure to jumpstart conversation. The White Lotus is, of course, a fictional show with interpersonal dynamics created for our entertainment, above all else. But the taboos it’s facing head-on are worth exploring from not just a character perspective, but a real-world one too.

After the episode, we were left wondering about the prevalence of sibling incest in real life, what family dynamics may have played into this transgression, and how therapists treat real cases of incest. TIME emailed with Tanya Rawal and Sona Kaur, two consultants at the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN) who often work with outside organizations on issues of sexual abuse, and even occasionally consult on Hollywood productions portraying such abuse onscreen. They weighed in on the incest storyline on White Lotus and how incest manifests in real-life families.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

TIME: How common is incest between siblings?

Tanya Rawal: Sexual misconduct tends to be significantly underreported for a variety of reasons, including fear of retaliation, shame, and the perception that authorities may not take allegations seriously. Abusive incestuous relationships are even more underreported. Victims may worry about the consequences for the larger family and feel pressure to remain silent due to loyalty, dependency, or the need to protect family members. They may worry about social taboos or experience confusion about the abuse itself. As a result, statistics on incest are notoriously difficult to provide. Many incidents never reach law enforcement or child protection agencies. Even anonymous surveys are ineffective in determining usable data regarding incestuous abuse. 

Leading up to this episode, have there been red flags on the show so far that Saxon and Lochlan’s parents, Timothy and Victoria, should have been looking out for?

Rawal: When we first meet the Ratliff siblings, they are on the White Lotus yacht sitting in age-order from left to right, with Saxon’s eyes covered with his sunglasses, Piper’s ears covered with large headphones, and Lochlan sipping a soda. It’s clear they are meant to represent the three wise monkeys who also symbolize avoidance. Given their shared distance from their parents, it seems the show is telling us from the beginning that the parents are the problem, and the children are reacting to the unhealthy dynamics set forth by them. 

There are several opportunities for the parents to have a stronger response in these situations to interrupt harmful behaviors—for example when Saxon is making inappropriate comments about Piper’s sex life, something she is obviously very uncomfortable with. Timothy and Victoria in general appear to look the other way when it comes to their children crossing each other’s boundaries.

As you note, Saxon made inappropriate comments about Piper’s sex life. Saxon also masturbated while watching porn in a room with no door next to Lochlan, and Lochlan watched. Then Victoria told a story about her own brother pinning her down and dangling spit above her mouth. How might the dynamic of the whole family unit influence the situation between Saxon and Lochlan?

Rawal: We have a hint that Victoria has normalized incestuous abuse between siblings given the story she shares about her and her own brother. So, again, what are the parents doing that contributes to the obviously unhealthy dynamics between their children? 

Sona Kaur: Victoria also seems to have an “everything is fine” mindset where inappropriate sexual comments by Saxon are laughed off and minimized, preventing any productive conversation that could be used to address feelings of discomfort amongst family members. 

What are the long-term implications of a sexual encounter between siblings?

Kaur: Like any form of sexual misconduct, the victim may experience stigma, isolation, and self-blame. They can also experience negative mental health impacts, such as anxiety and depression. When abuse occurs within a familial relationship—one that is supposed to be characterized by safety and trust—victims can experience high betrayal trauma. In order to cope with and reconcile the dissonance, victims may experience denial, confusion, and have inconsistent or suppressed memories about the abuse.

Are there underlying psychological issues to consider?

Kaur: Given how taboo incest is, it is understandable why one would think that an underlying clinical issue exists, particularly in the person who initiated the incestuous relationship. While this can be true, abusive incestuous relationships are often the result of social factors that create an environment where this is normalized. This includes a lack of awareness around healthy familial dynamics, a lack of accountability from parents—for example, not addressing inappropriate sexual jokes or other boundary violations—that can create a familial environment that is more tolerant of sexual abuse. 

A close-knit dynamic where the message is that everything that happens within the family stays in the family, along with pressure to protect the family image, could also lead to increased isolation from potential support networks. 

Both parties are under the influence of alcohol and drugs when this happens. How can that impact the situation?

Rawal: The use of alcohol and drugs can significantly affect the dynamics of any sexual encounter, influencing consent and communication. In some cases, alcohol and drugs are deliberately used as tools to facilitate exploitation, further complicating issues of agency. Saxon was not comfortable taking drugs, yet there was a palpable social pressure for him to partake, highlighting potential coercive dynamics at play.

How does a therapist counsel siblings about where the line is and what happens when the line is crossed?

Kaur: Any parent or professional who wants to draw lines around healthy and unhealthy familial dynamics can focus on emphasizing the importance of personal boundaries. Additionally, the choice to not be sexually active should be validated rather than challenged (which is something that we see Saxon do a lot of in relation to both Piper and Lochlan).

Rawal: Parents and professionals can help establish healthy boundaries by defining appropriate and inappropriate behaviors, discussing concepts like personal space and consent, and teaching effective communication when a boundary—whether physical, emotional, or psychological—has been crossed. Recognizing red flags such as discomfort, guilt, secrecy, and coercion is crucial, as they often indicate boundary violations. 

Talking about green flags—like what brings feelings of happiness and mutual respect—is also a crucial aspect of establishing healthy boundaries. Engaging in role-playing scenarios can be an effective way to help individuals practice setting and enforcing boundaries in a safe and supportive environment. Parents and professionals should also make themselves aware of normative sexual development and exploration, which involves learning about age-appropriate curiosity, relationships, and boundaries.